Episode 11: Law Student Takeover

In Season 2, Episode 11 of the Direct Examination podcast, hosts Amber Fulmer and Dayne Phillips (with Joseph Bias away on a business trip) welcome Barbara “Barbie” Seymour, former Deputy Disciplinary Counsel at the South Carolina Office of Disciplinary Counsel (ODC) and current legal ethics attorney at Clawson and Staubes. Seymour provides an insider’s perspective on the attorney disciplinary process, common ethical pitfalls, and how ODC investigates grievances. She also addresses public misconceptions surrounding judicial discipline, emphasizes the importance of mental health resources like Lawyers Helping Lawyers, and shares practical guidance for attorneys receiving grievance notices.

Key Topics Covered

  • Transition to ODC: Seymour’s path from private trial practice at Harrison Graves in Greenville to joining ODC after spotting a classified ad in SC Lawyer Magazine.

  • Root Causes of Grievances: Why client communication failures trigger the majority of complaints, along with trust account management errors.

  • Navigating Disciplinary Inquiries: The 15-day response rule, requesting extensions, and the risk of escalation through “Tracy letters” or failure to cooperate.

  • Addressing Misconceptions in Judicial Discipline: Dispelling myths regarding judicial oversight in South Carolina and responding to media critiques about the disciplinary process.

  • Lawyer Wellness & Mental Health: How ODC handles underlying mental health or substance abuse issues through deferred discipline, and utilizing the five free counseling sessions provided via SC Bar dues.

  • Cross-Examination: Seymour reveals that if she were not an attorney, her dream career would be working as a book critic.

Transcript

Amber Fulmer: Welcome, y’all, to the Direct Examination podcast! My name is Amber Fulmer.

Dayne Phillips: And I’m Dayne Phillips.

Amber Fulmer: Our friend Joseph Bias is not here with us tonight. He’s on a business trip in New Jersey—Atlantic City, probably!

Dayne Phillips: You can track my location anytime at the courthouse, but Joseph didn’t check in!

Our guest today is Barbara Seymour. In her former life at the Office of Disciplinary Counsel (ODC), she investigated and prosecuted allegations of misconduct, incapacity, and contempt of court by attorneys across South Carolina. Now on the defense side, she handles legal and judicial ethics, professional discipline, and bar admissions at Clawson and Staubes in Columbia. Welcome to the show, Barbie!

Barbara Seymour: Thanks for having me!

Dayne Phillips: What made you decide to go to work at ODC?

Barbara Seymour: It was actually an accident! I was working at Harrison Graves in Greenville doing trial work. I was reading SC Lawyer Magazine and saw a classified ad for an Assistant Disciplinary Counsel position at the Supreme Court. I interviewed with Susan Johnston and Henry Richardson. Something about it spoke to me, so I took a 50% pay cut, moved to Columbia, and never looked back!

Amber Fulmer: What are the most common pitfalls and mistakes that lead to grievances?

Barbara Seymour: The number one complaint from clients is “my lawyer isn’t doing anything for me”. When ODC looks into it, usually the lawyer is doing a great job, but simply failed to communicate. Technology makes communication so easy now. Copying clients on every email or letter goes a long way toward preventing complaints. Another major pitfall is trust accounting. Trust accounting is fiduciary math, and hiring a professional who understands trust accounting is essential.

Dayne Phillips: What happens when an ODC complaint letter arrives?

Barbara Seymour: First, don’t panic, but call ODC immediately and ask for an extension! By rule, you only have 15 days to respond, which is not enough time. Anyone who answers the phone at ODC can grant an extension.

If a lawyer ignores the complaint, ODC sends a “Tracy letter”—a formal reminder that failing to respond is an independent grounds for discipline under In re Tracy. If you ignore that, you’ll receive a notice to appear for a formal deposition.

Dayne Phillips: Last week, an article in the Post and Courier raised questions about judicial discipline in South Carolina. What is your perspective on how judicial complaints are handled?

Barbara Seymour: That article got it wrong and cast an unfair shadow over our judiciary and the disciplinary process. The suggestion that judges protect themselves or that discipline is political is completely unfounded in fact. South Carolina has an extraordinarily thorough vetting process for judicial candidates. The reason we haven’t had public discipline against circuit or family court judges in 20 years is because we do a darn good job of selecting high-quality judges in the first place!

Dayne Phillips: How does ODC handle underlying mental health or addiction issues?

Barbara Seymour: ODC works closely with Lawyers Helping Lawyers. Disciplinary counsel looks for root causes. If misconduct stems from depression, substance abuse, or burnout, ODC can utilize deferred discipline agreements where the lawyer gets treatment and remediation rather than strict public discipline. Also, every SC Bar member gets five free mental health counseling sessions per year included with their bar dues!

Amber Fulmer: Time for Cross-Examination! If you could do anything other than practice law, what would you be?

Barbara Seymour: I think I’d be a book critic! I love to read, especially non-fiction authors like Eric Larson.

Amber Fulmer: Thank you so much for joining us, Barbie! You can connect with Barbara Seymour on LinkedIn or visit clawsonandstaubes.com. Follow us @SCLawPod on Twitter and Facebook, Dayne @SCCrimLawyer, Amber @actredjudicata, and Joseph @JosephPBias. Don’t forget to give us a 5-star rating on iTunes!

Dayne Phillips: See y’all next week!