South Carolina

Dane Phillips: Welcome y’all to the Direct Examination Podcast! I’m Dane Phillips.

Joseph Bias: And I’m Joseph Bias! Dane, how are you today?

Dane Phillips: The world is my oyster, Joseph! Just peachy!

Joseph Bias: I love the positive attitude! Amber is still away on maternity leave, but Dane has some big news. Dane has been nominated by Free Times for Best DUI Attorney and Best Law Firm!

Dane Phillips: Look, I’m just a simple man from West Columbia, but if the people want me to win, who am I to argue? (laughs) Go to free-times.com and vote!

Joseph Bias: Also, if you’re on Twitter on Tuesday nights at 8:00 PM, join us, judges, and lawyers across the state live-tweeting The People v. O.J. Simpson using the hashtag #SCYLDWatches!

Now, today we have two incredible guests for a panel discussion on criminal justice reform and practice. First, returning guest April Sampson, 5th Circuit Deputy Solicitor, second-in-command for Richland and Kershaw Counties!

April Sampson: Thank you so much for having me back, guys!

Joseph Bias: And joining her is Mark McLawhorn of McLawhorn Law! Mark is a former SC Court of Appeals clerk, former US 5th Circuit Court of Appeals clerk, and former Assistant Federal Public Defender. Welcome, Mark!

Mark McLawhorn: Thanks for having me, Joseph and Dane.

Joseph Bias: Mark, let’s start with you. What drew you into appellate work and criminal defense early in your career?

Mark McLawhorn: In law school, I competed in moot court with the Black Law Students Association (BLSA). I clerked at the South Carolina Court of Appeals and later the US 5th Circuit Court of Appeals in Louisiana. Appellate law is where major constitutional decisions happen that reshape civil rights and fair trial standards for minority communities. Later, serving as an Assistant Federal Public Defender allowed me to take those appellate skills into the courtroom to fight for people facing life-altering federal sentences.

Joseph Bias: April and Mark, both of you are prominent Black attorneys practicing in South Carolina courtrooms. What unique dynamics or assumptions do you face?

April Sampson: People often don’t expect the prosecutor to be a Black woman. When I walk into a courtroom or talk to people on the phone, they frequently assume I’m a defendant, a court reporter, or a probation officer—anybody except the lead prosecutor. You have to overcome that initial hurdle before you even present your case.

Mark McLawhorn: I experienced the exact same thing when I was a public defender visiting jails. Inmates and staff would ask if I was a mortician or a probation agent. They’d ask, “When are you gonna graduate law school and become a real lawyer?” You have to develop thick skin, do your job at the highest level, and prove your competence every single day.

Dane Phillips: April, from a prosecutor’s perspective, how do you handle evaluating police work when cases come across your desk?

April Sampson: The police make the arrest before the case ever reaches my desk. A big part of my job is scrutinizing that arrest: Was the traffic stop lawful? Did they have probable cause? Did they advise the suspect of their Miranda rights correctly? If an officer messed up or violated someone’s constitutional rights, we can’t fix that, and we have to dismiss or reduce the case.

Regarding the broader debate on “defunding the police,” I don’t think completely defunding police departments is realistic or helpful. But redirecting funds toward better officer training, de-escalation, and community outreach is absolutely necessary.

Mark McLawhorn: I agree completely. In South Carolina, police academy training at the Criminal Justice Academy is only 12 weeks long. That is far too short for someone endowed with the legal authority to use lethal force. Training needs to be six to nine months minimum. We also need to reallocate resources toward social workers, mental health counselors, job training, and after-school programs so we address the root causes of crime before someone enters the court system.

Joseph Bias: Mark, after the murder of George Floyd, you publicly offered pro bono legal representation to peaceful protestors arrested in Columbia. What motivated that decision?

Mark McLawhorn: The video of George Floyd’s murder was one of the most horrific things I have ever seen. The First Amendment right to assemble and peacefully protest state oppression is the foundational bedrock of American democracy. When people exercise that right peacefully and get swept up in mass arrests, lawyers shouldn’t sit on the sidelines. We need to step up and ensure their constitutional rights are protected.

Dane Phillips: Another major systemic issue is police disciplinary transparency and accountability. Right now, there is no centralized, publicly accessible database tracking officer complaints or disciplinary records (Brady/Giglio material).

April Sampson: That’s a huge challenge. Even as a prosecutor, obtaining an officer’s internal personnel or disciplinary file requires jumping through massive hurdles. Having a transparent, standardized state or national system would make trials fairer for everyone.

Mark McLawhorn: Just recently, the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals issued a landmark decision in Wayne Jones v. City of Martinsburg, where five officers shot an unarmed, homeless Black man 22 times. Judge Floyd wrote a powerful opinion denying qualified immunity, explicitly stating, “This has to stop.” Courts are finally starting to re-evaluate the doctrine of qualified immunity.

Joseph Bias: To close out, what advice would you give to young Black law students and attorneys entering the legal field today?

Mark McLawhorn: Network aggressively and build relationships early. Don’t be shy—reach out to experienced attorneys, ask questions, seek out mentors, and put yourself out there.

April Sampson: Develop thick skin and don’t carry the weight of trying to be “perfect” just because you’re a minority. Find the area of law you truly love—whether it’s prosecution, defense, or civil litigation—and excel at being the best version of yourself.

Joseph Bias: April and Mark, thank you both so much for an incredible, insightful discussion!

April Sampson: Thanks for having me!

Mark McLawhorn: Thank you, Joseph and Dane.

Dane Phillips: You can find Mark online at mclawhornlegal.com or on social media @McLawhornLegal. Follow us on Twitter and Facebook @SCLawPod, follow Dane @SCCrimLawyer, and Joseph @JosephPBias. Vote for Dane in Free Times, leave us a five-star review, and we’ll see y’all next week!