South Carolina

Joseph Bias: Welcome y’all to the Direct Examination Podcast! My name is Joseph Bias.

Dane Phillips: And I’m Dane Phillips.

Joseph Bias: Guys, we’re so happy that you are joining us for this episode! If you’re listening to us, remember to give us a five-star rating on your favorite podcast app—Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Buzzsprout, wherever you’re listening to this, pause it and give us a five-star rating! We certainly appreciate it. As you know, as lawyers, people don’t usually say nice things about us, so if you could do that, we’d certainly appreciate it!

Dane Phillips: I’ve said it before: we’re shallow, we’re pandering, give us praise! (laughs)

Joseph Bias: Give us outside validation! (laughs) Dane, how are you?

Dane Phillips: I’m doing amazing! How are you?

Joseph Bias: I’m doing well! I had the opportunity this weekend to judge the South Carolina Middle School Mock Trial competition. We’ve done mock trial on the show, y’all know how much it means to me, so it was great to see the competition.

Dane Phillips: The future competition!

Joseph Bias: I was a little intimidated by some of them! (laughs) I started handing out North Carolina Bar applications like, “No, no, no, just cross the border, you’re a little too good!” (laughs) You can never start too early. Well, today, we have nothing but illustrious guests, and this guest is right up there for us!

Dane Phillips: Without a doubt, this is our Power 50! Our esteemed guest today is none other than Beverly Carroll. She is the current South Carolina Bar President and former South Carolina Bar Foundation President. She has consistently been an active member of the Bar, serving on both the Board of Governors and the House of Delegates. She is a business law and employment litigation attorney at Morton & Gettys in Rock Hill, and is certified by the South Carolina Supreme Court as a Specialist in Employment and Labor Law and as a Civil Court Mediator. She has received the Distinguished Lawyer Award, the Key to the City of Rock Hill, the South Carolina Lawyers Hall of Fame, the Complete Lawyer Platinum Award, and multiple service awards. Welcome to the show!

Beverly Carroll: Well, thank you! I appreciate that.

Joseph Bias: Ms. Carroll, let’s start with your background. Almost all lawyers on this podcast practice law, but not all decide to serve in the House of Delegates, the Board of Governors, and eventually as Bar President. What made you decide to serve in that capacity?

Beverly Carroll: For me, I worked at a law firm in Rock Hill called Roddey, Carpenter & White, and Bob Carpenter was one of the senior lawyers there. Bob had been President of the South Carolina Bar Association in 1972, before I ever started practicing. He was a bar person through and through. He always emphasized how much he enjoyed bar work, but Bob’s primary interest was the people you get to meet. He always encouraged it, I paid attention, and thank goodness I followed his example.

Joseph Bias: For our listeners who aren’t lawyers, what are the obligations and responsibilities that you have as the current South Carolina Bar President?

Beverly Carroll: Nobody ever asks me that, so I actually looked at what the bylaws say today! (laughs) It says my job is to “preside at all meetings of the Assembly and the Board, appoint the chairs and members of all committees, and he shall be the official spokesman for the Bar…” (laughs)

Joseph Bias: We’ve got to make some changes to those bylaws! (laughs)

Beverly Carroll: Exactly! It says, “He shall have general charge and supervision of its affairs.” But beyond the bylaws, it’s a great opportunity to have an impact on your profession and help lawyers be great lawyers.

Dane Phillips: In trying to come up with the heart of the interview, what are the real responsibilities that you’ve taken on, and why do it?

Beverly Carroll: It’s a great opportunity in a profession where you can have an impact. Our role as far as the Bar is concerned is to help lawyers be great lawyers. We provide them training, avenues to serve on practice and procedure committees, and support for attorneys in all types of practice—whether in-house, public defender, solicitor, or solo practitioners.

Joseph Bias: Protecting the reputation of the profession is something every lawyer cares about. How does the Bar help maintain high standards while supporting its members?

Beverly Carroll: The Disciplinary Counsel’s office does a good job of dealing with complaints, but by its nature, that process has to remain confidential because there are complaints that have no basis, and publicizing them would ruin innocent people’s reputations. On the supportive side, colleagues in this state do a lot to help one another. If lawyers realize a colleague is in trouble or struggling, people step in to help.

Dane Phillips: We talked on the phone the other day about the South Carolina Bar Juris magazine doing a whole issue on wellness. There’s been a big shift in focus on mental health, stress, and the pressure of being a lawyer. Can you talk about those resources?

Beverly Carroll: That’s one of the best underutilized benefits we offer. Through our EAP (Employee Assistance Program), the Bar pays for 5 free counseling sessions for any Bar member. It’s completely confidential—the Bar does not keep names or track who uses it. It can be for anything: substance abuse, stress in practice, family issues, or financial pressure. We contract with the service, pay for it, and it really needs to be utilized more.

Joseph Bias: What other member benefits does the SC Bar offer that aren’t used as much as they should be?

Beverly Carroll: The first one that comes to mind is Fastcase! If you’re paying a private Westlaw or LexisNexis contract as a solo or small firm, Fastcase is a free, comprehensive legal research tool provided by the South Carolina Bar to all of our members. We also have PMAP—the Practice Management Assistance Program—where an attorney advises members on managing their law practice, technology, and trust accounting.

Dane Phillips: How does the Bar seek to provide services to rural, smaller counties where lawyers sometimes feel left out compared to Columbia, Charleston, or Greenville?

Beverly Carroll: We made a real, concerted effort this year. We went to Orangeburg, we went to Sumter, and we’re scheduling meetings across five smaller county regions in the first few months of next year. Part of it is just going out, meeting these lawyers where they practice, listening to their concerns, and ensuring they feel connected to the statewide Bar.

Joseph Bias: What can we do to increase diversity in leadership positions at the SC Bar?

Beverly Carroll: The nominating process tries to be very conscious of diversity, but part of it is finding people who are able and willing to participate. Diverse attorneys often get pulled in so many different committee directions. Under past President Dorford “Daws” Cook, an Ad Hoc Diversity Committee was appointed. That committee issued a report, and our Diversity Committee is now developing a 5-year strategic plan for the Bar to actively recruit, retain, and promote diverse leadership, as well as support diverse students entering law school.

Dane Phillips: What about mid-career lawyers who age out of the Young Lawyers Division (YLD) but aren’t senior lawyers yet?

Beverly Carroll: We formed an ad hoc committee called “NextGen” to address that exact 15-to-25-year practice gap. That’s when attorneys are growing their practice, trying to generate business, and often balancing young families. We’ve seen many talented women leave the practice during those years because firms don’t offer flexible structures. We’re looking at how the Bar can provide guidance on business development, practice management, and family integration to keep those lawyers supported.

Joseph Bias: To close out our interview, we ask all of our guests for their best courtroom war story. What story comes to mind for you?

Beverly Carroll: This isn’t my story, but it’s one of my favorites told by my late partner, Bob Carpenter, who was a contemporary of legendary civil rights attorney and federal Judge Matthew J. Perry. Back in the early 1960s, Bob represented the municipal association prosecuting civil rights sit-in protesters, and Judge Perry represented the protesters for the NAACP. They were on the circuit together. Bob said they were trying a case in front of an all-white, six-man jury. Right before closing arguments, Judge Perry walked up to Bob in front of the jury box, grabbed Bob’s hand with both of his hands, smiled warmly, and said, “Mr. Carpenter, it is so wonderful to see you today!” (laughs) Bob said he tried everything in the world to pull his hand away politely without making a scene, but Judge Perry held on tight right in front of that jury! (laughs) Both of them loved telling that story to each other over the years. It was brilliant lawyering!

Joseph Bias: That is an incredible story! Judge Perry knew exactly what he was doing! (laughs) Ms. Carroll, thank you so much for joining us today!

Beverly Carroll: Thank you! I enjoyed it.

Joseph Bias: If you want more information about the programs mentioned today, visit scbar.org. You can follow Beverly Carroll on Twitter @BevCarrollSC. Follow us @SCLawPod on Twitter and Facebook, follow Joseph @JosephPBias, Dane @SCCrimLawyer, and Amber @RedJudicata. Leave us a five-star review and we’ll see y’all next week!