South Carolina

Amber Fulmer: Welcome y’all to the Direct Examination Podcast. I’m Amber Fulmer.

Dane Phillips: I’m Dane Phillips.

Joseph Bias: And I’m Joseph Bias. Hey, Amber’s back! Hi, Amber!

Amber Fulmer: Being all nice now! I heard last week’s podcast—I know the smack! (laughs)

Dane Phillips: It’s easier when you’re not here! (laughs)

Amber Fulmer: When the pregnant woman shows up, then you’re like, “Oh my god, I don’t want to open my mouth, she looks so mad and sweaty!” (laughs)

Joseph Bias: Look, as you all know, we have nothing but illustrious guests. Continuing our theme of nothing but illustrious guests, Amber, who do we have this week?

Amber Fulmer: Our guest today was first elected to the At-Large seat on Columbia City Council in April of 2002, becoming the first African-American female to serve in that position. She is a graduate of Hampton University and the University of South Carolina School of Law, and currently serves as one of the principals of Jabber & Isaac, a firm that does real estate, probate law, personal injury, and governmental relations law. She is the mother of three beautiful children: Tamika, Jaida, and Jameson. Please help us welcome Tameika Isaac Devine to the show!

Dane Phillips: Welcome!

Joseph Bias: Welcome!

Tameika Isaac Devine: Thank you, guys! It’s a pleasure to be here.

Joseph Bias: It’s very exciting for us to have you on. To start off, for our younger listeners or law students who may want to get involved in local politics, how do you balance being an attorney and an elected official on a day-to-day basis?

Tameika Isaac Devine: There is no rhyme or reason to my days! (laughs) Law, politics, mommy duties—no day is the same. But if you want to be an elected official, you certainly have to have the heart for it because you do not get paid a lot. On Columbia City Council, we make $13,500 a year. You actually lose money if you’re an attorney because service takes up so much time. We have standing meetings every other Tuesday, committee meetings, retreats, and during emergencies or natural disasters like floods and hurricanes, I am out of my office constantly. You have to have a legal career or job that allows you that flexibility. When I ran for office, I started my own law firm because I knew I couldn’t work for someone else and have the flexibility I needed to serve.

Dane Phillips: How do you handle court dates or scheduling when Council duties arise?

Tameika Isaac Devine: Law practice takes precedence over Council when it comes to court. You can’t tell a judge, “I have a City Council meeting today.” I’ve had times where I was in probate court while Council was meeting, texting my colleagues while waiting for the vote. But I’ve adapted my law practice—focusing on probate, real estate, and personal injury rather than heavy litigation—so that my schedule supports my public service.

Amber Fulmer: On your website, you talk about helping working women with work-life balance. How do you manage work-life balance with everything on your plate?

Tameika Isaac Devine: I tell people that I don’t believe in “work-life balance.” I talk about work-life integration. Work-life balance is a fallacy, and trying to achieve it causes people so much unnecessary stress because they feel like they’re constantly failing. What works for one person won’t work for another. I am very intentional with my time. I say “no” when something doesn’t align with my goals or family priorities.

I also believe in “hiring your weakness” or outsourcing things that don’t need to be done by you personally. For instance, I use grocery delivery services like Shipt. People laugh, but my time is worth more than spending two hours in a grocery store. If you bill $200 or $300 an hour, paying for a service that saves you two hours is a simple cost-benefit analysis!

Amber Fulmer: I love efficiency! That makes so much sense.

Joseph Bias: How do you handle the stress that comes with both the courtroom and public office?

Tameika Isaac Devine: You have to put things in perspective and practice gratitude. As lawyers, we not only carry our own stress, but we absorb our clients’ issues, which leads to burnout. In 2014, my husband and I experienced the tragedy of losing a son who was stillborn. Going through something like that completely changes your perspective—it makes you realize not to sweat the small stuff.

Every single night, I keep a gratitude journal where I write down things I am grateful for. I challenge myself not to repeat items for a whole month. It forces you to look at the world differently, so when you encounter a difficult client or a tough day in court, you maintain your composure and keep things in perspective.

Dane Phillips: That’s great advice. Now, as is tradition on our podcast, we ask all our guests for a war story. What is one of the best stories you can share?

Tameika Isaac Devine: Shortly after having my first child, I was balancing court, work, and Council meetings. One evening, after working all day and rushing from court, I picked up my daughter, ran through the McDonald’s drive-thru to get her dinner, and brought her with me to a community meeting. I set her up quietly in the back with her food and a coloring book. Afterwards, a woman came up to me and said, “You’re feeding your child McDonald’s? Maybe you should be home cooking a home-cooked meal.”

It was my first real experience with in-your-face “mom-shaming.” At first, it caught me off guard, but I had to realize that her expectations didn’t define my choices as a parent. You have to make the choices that work for you and your family, do your job with integrity, and not let anyone else steal your joy.

In practice, I once had an opposing counsel who decided to be unnecessarily hostile and aggressive in court just to put on a show for his client. It taught me an important lesson: you can’t let someone else’s behavior pull you out of your professional zone. You stay true to yourself, represent your client respectfully, and keep moving forward.

Dane Phillips: Thank you so much for being on the show! How can our listeners find you and follow your work?

Tameika Isaac Devine: You can visit my website at adevinelife.com. On Twitter, I’m @TIDevine, on Facebook at tameika.i.devine, and on Instagram @tameikaisaacdevine.

Joseph Bias: Thank you so much, Tameika! Listeners, make sure to like, share, and leave us a five-star review. You can follow us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram @SCLawPod, follow Joseph at @JosephPBias, Dane at @SCCrimLawyer, and Amber at @RedJudicata. We’ll see y’all next week!